[tomwid]

Link

Quote

Originally Posted by Audiworld
Interesting tid-bit. Talking to IMSA and Viper Racing League sterwards. found HRE's are banned ...
User account number (aid): 1113
Posted by Mike S on 2005-06-05 20:17:58
in both series due to too many failures.

NINE, yes NINE failures in one race weekend Vipers.

Apparently the PCA is on their way to banning HRE's as well.

The racers have always called them "Fools Fashion" and i thought that was a little rough until I started seeing them fail at track events and how easily they bend and corrode.

Then, after Leslie had problems with hers corroding and I spoke with one of the owners, I realized quickly they were WAY out of reality as to strength and design.

Wasn't really surprised that they were banned (was at the meeting), but was surprised at ALL the problems reported.

Unreal for such an expensive wheel.

Apparently tolerances are sooooo poor that the tires often rotate on the wheels themselves as the rims are often slightly too small.

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[ipse dixit]

I think most serious track guys know better than run with HREs.

Aside from the soft alloys that HRE uses, there are other problems with them, including (1) weight (2 or 3 piece wheels are usually very heavy) (2) weight (wheels with fat lips are usually very heavy) and (3) did I mention weight?

BTW - they are also a bit pricey IMO to be running around on a track, no?

[tomwid]

You would think, but aren't HREs supposed to be forged? I also thought that 3pc wheels were lighter?

Believe it or not, my 19" Radenergies are much lighter than the stockers w/ dunlops. I think maybe the RFTs have a lot to do w/ the weight savings.

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:18 PM, said:

I think most serious track guys know better than run with HREs.

Aside from the soft alloys that HRE uses, there are other problems with them, including (1) weight (2 or 3 piece wheels are usually very heavy) (2) weight (wheels with fat lips are usually very heavy) and (3) did I mention weight?

BTW - they are also a bit pricey IMO to be running around on a track, no?

[ipse dixit]

tomwid, on Jan 13 2006, 01:20 PM, said:

You would think, but aren't HREs supposed to be forged? I also thought that 3pc wheels were lighter?

Believe it or not, my 19" Radenergies are much lighter than the stockers w/ dunlops. I think maybe the RFTs have a lot to do w/ the weight savings.

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:18 PM, said:

I think most serious track guys know better than run with HREs.

Aside from the soft alloys that HRE uses, there are other problems with them, including (1) weight (2 or 3 piece wheels are usually very heavy) (2) weight (wheels with fat lips are usually very heavy) and (3) did I mention weight?

BTW - they are also a bit pricey IMO to be running around on a track, no?

Honestly, I think this whole issue with HRE was a bit overblown. The P-car guys were also using HRE wheels on some of their sessions and the wheel failure rates weren't necessarily any higher or lower than other brands, e.g. BBS, SSR, Fiske, etc.

3 piece wheels (forged or cast) are heavier than one piece (forged or cast). The benefit of 3 piece wheels is to provide a deep dish and to make repairs easier (e.g., taking the one piece that is dented or chipped to be refinished instead of the whole wheel).

Idea wheels for racing would be something that is one piece forged and weighing around 18-19 lbs.

Wheels fail all the time during track sessions, and all brands have wheels that break. I don't really think this is systemic to HREs.

[tomwid]

I thought about that too, but do you really think wheels get banned from a racing circuit on "regular" failures?

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

Wheels fail all the time during track sessions, and all brands have wheels that break. I don't really think this is systemic to HREs.

[cobradav]

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

tomwid, on Jan 13 2006, 01:20 PM, said:

You would think, but aren't HREs supposed to be forged? I also thought that 3pc wheels were lighter?

Believe it or not, my 19" Radenergies are much lighter than the stockers w/ dunlops. I think maybe the RFTs have a lot to do w/ the weight savings.

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:18 PM, said:

I think most serious track guys know better than run with HREs.

Aside from the soft alloys that HRE uses, there are other problems with them, including (1) weight (2 or 3 piece wheels are usually very heavy) (2) weight (wheels with fat lips are usually very heavy) and (3) did I mention weight?

BTW - they are also a bit pricey IMO to be running around on a track, no?

Honestly, I think this whole issue with HRE was a bit overblown. The P-car guys were also using HRE wheels on some of their sessions and the wheel failure rates weren't necessarily any higher or lower than other brands, e.g. BBS, SSR, Fiske, etc.

3 piece wheels (forged or cast) are heavier than one piece (forged or cast). The benefit of 3 piece wheels is to provide a deep dish and to make repairs easier (e.g., taking the one piece that is dented or chipped to be refinished instead of the whole wheel).

Idea wheels for racing would be something that is one piece forged and weighing around 18-19 lbs.

Wheels fail all the time during track sessions, and all brands have wheels that break. I don't really think this is systemic to HREs.

May be true that they do not have a higher falure rate than other brands (and I sure do not know one way or another) but they do cost a considerable premium over many of the other brands you mention. It does lead one to some expectation of "higher" quality however, false that you get what you pay for axiom may be. Just knowing they are the "equal" of less expensive brands is enough for me to stay away from them as where is the benefit?

[ipse dixit]

tomwid, on Jan 13 2006, 01:51 PM, said:

I thought about that too, but do you really think wheels get banned from a racing circuit on "regular" failures?

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

Wheels fail all the time during track sessions, and all brands have wheels that break. I don't really think this is systemic to HREs.

Yeah, I've always wondered about $$ and quality. HREs are no doubt one of the most expensive wheels out there.

But then, look at Michelin ... they were banned from Formula One because of tire failures, but we still love the Pilot Sport PS2s right (and they are one of the most pricey tires out there)?

[cobradav]

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 05:03 PM, said:

tomwid, on Jan 13 2006, 01:51 PM, said:

I thought about that too, but do you really think wheels get banned from a racing circuit on "regular" failures?

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

Wheels fail all the time during track sessions, and all brands have wheels that break. I don't really think this is systemic to HREs.

Yeah, I've always wondered about $$ and quality. HREs are no doubt one of the most expensive wheels out there.

But then, look at Michelin ... they were banned from Formula One because of tire failures, but we still love the Pilot Sport PS2s right (and they are one of the most pricey tires out there)?

Yes, they are good, but tread life is not so good. If you look at the big tire test posted elsewhere here (not sure where just now), there were some tires that actually performed better AND were cheaper. Its just that several of them do not have the enthusist following that PS2s have. And isn't Michelin back in Formula 1 now or am I mistaken?

[pmmeke]

cobradav, on Jan 13 2006, 11:15 PM, said:

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 05:03 PM, said:

tomwid, on Jan 13 2006, 01:51 PM, said:

I thought about that too, but do you really think wheels get banned from a racing circuit on "regular" failures?

ipse dixit, on Jan 13 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

Wheels fail all the time during track sessions, and all brands have wheels that break. I don't really think this is systemic to HREs.

Yeah, I've always wondered about $$ and quality. HREs are no doubt one of the most expensive wheels out there.

But then, look at Michelin ... they were banned from Formula One because of tire failures, but we still love the Pilot Sport PS2s right (and they are one of the most pricey tires out there)?

Yes, they are good, but tread life is not so good. If you look at the big tire test posted elsewhere here (not sure where just now), there were some tires that actually performed better AND were cheaper. Its just that several of them do not have the enthusist following that PS2s have. And isn't Michelin back in Formula 1 now or am I mistaken?

Everybody is wrong: its even funny because that picture is not a hre wheel its a kinesis wheel


http://forum.e46fana...e+failure+track

Hre is a show wheels. If you want to track it they now have a race line the competition series. But i think its silly to use hre as a track wheels. Hre is prestige, show qualety and exelent finish. Did you ever c a track car racing with bodywork with a exelent finish? Hell most track race cars have pieces that would fall of if they did not have a rope tied around them preventing to fall off.

[Peter530i]

there you guys have it. I always say only OEM only OEM only OEM wheels !!!

[Znod]

tomwid, on Jan 13 2006, 04:09 PM, said:

Link

Quote

Originally Posted by Audiworld
Interesting tid-bit. Talking to IMSA and Viper Racing League sterwards. found HRE's are banned ...
User account number (aid): 1113
Posted by Mike S on 2005-06-05 20:17:58
in both series due to too many failures.

NINE, yes NINE failures in one race weekend Vipers.

Apparently the PCA is on their way to banning HRE's as well.

The racers have always called them "Fools Fashion" and i thought that was a little rough until I started seeing them fail at track events and how easily they bend and corrode.

Then, after Leslie had problems with hers corroding and I spoke with one of the owners, I realized quickly they were WAY out of reality as to strength and design.

Wasn't really surprised that they were banned (was at the meeting), but was surprised at ALL the problems reported.

Unreal for such an expensive wheel.

Apparently tolerances are sooooo poor that the tires often rotate on the wheels themselves as the rims are often slightly too small.

Very interesting Tom.

[jet190rs]

This is old news.

Besides, why would you take HREs to the track in the first place? They weren't designed for that...

HRE is popular in the tuning crowd mainly for their looks - minimalistic spoke designs with huge lips. The larger the lip, the weaker the wheel. HREs are for pimping, and are fine for everyday street driving.

Don't get me wrong, I like HREs. I think their wheels look great. They are high end street wheels, but they are not high end track wheels. Don't assume just because they are expensive that they must be good for the track.

There is no corelation between the price of a wheel and its performance. Its all about marketing. Companies charge whatever price customers are willing to pay. Giovanna and Davin wheels are also very expensive - $1,000 per wheel. But would you take them onto a track? Absolutely not. They were designed to look good, not for racing. Hell, 4 of those new Asanti rims cost $1 million! And they must be the strongest rims on the planet cause they're MADE OUT OF DIAMONDS BABY! Would they be good on the track?

If you want a serious wheel for the track, its all about BBS.

[EuroCarFan]

Don't forget OZs

[tomwid]

It's true that tracking a car puts a very heavy toll on the rims. We would probably never see anything like that happen on the street.

[Peter530i]

tomwid, on Jan 13 2006, 11:13 PM, said:

It's true that tracking a car puts a very heavy toll on the rims. We would probably never see anything like that happen on the street.

come on, I've been to a race track with my stock E60. If you drive the hardest as you think it is still nothing.
Having the car on the race tracnk does not make you ultimate racer beyond any limits.... you don't get that way over the limit at all......

so I don't take this as an excuse for the poor quality of the wheels.....